Hi -- I tried posting this over on The Gear Page forum, but realized after the fact that it probably wasn't the right venue for the question, so I'm posting here.
tl;dr -- why does some software offer tip + shank (SSD), some offer tip + edge (Toontrack), and some all three (Logic)?
---
I am an owner of a all three of the above mentioned packages, and there are times where I am thinking I may want to program using one tool, but then use the kits from another one. I already understand all the gotchas about how Logic does its midi mappings, but the question I am trying to answer is how to reconcile the differences in the actual hi-hat 'hits' that each kit makes available, when trying to transpose between tools.
Because I am not a drummer, I am a bit at a loss as to the nuance of why some of the packages offer edge versus shank, or if they're using them synonymously, or what..
Logic's drums use the following (in their advanced GM+ mapping, which I think is most comparable to other tools:
Hi-Hat Tip (varying degrees of open from 1 - 7, with 1 = closed)
Hi-Hat Shank (varying degrees of open from 1 - 7, with 1 = closed)
Hi-Hat Edge (varying degrees of open from 1 - 7, with 1 = closed)
Hi-Hat Foot Close
Hi-Hat Foot Splash
EZDrummer/Superior Drummer use:
Closed Tip
Closed Edge
Tight Tip
Tight Edge
Open (varying degrees 1 - 5) -- ambiguous as to whether it's tip or edge..
Open Pedal ['foot splash']
Closed Pedal ['foot close']
Slate uses:
Hi-Hat Tip (5 varying degrees ranging from closed to open)
Hi-Hat Shank (5 varying degrees ranging from closed to open)
Hi-Hat Clamp [seems like this is 'foot close']
Hi-Hat Clamp Ring [seems like this is 'foot splash']
So.. it looks like Logic offers tip, shank, and edge voicing
EZDrummer offers Tip and Edge, but no shank
Slate offers Tip and Shank, but no edge.
From what I can hear in Logic, Shank and Edge sound similar but not identical, and as you open the hi-hat, the edge sounds 'more open' at a given articulation ID value, but still not the same tonality.
So is Logic providing *more* flexibility than the other packages?
Just curious what others have thought when trying to do this mix and matching between programming tool and playback tool.
Open-handed drumming refers to a method of playing a drum kit.
- 3Open-handed drummers
Method[edit]
The method involves not crossing the hands when playing the hi-hat (or ride-cymbal) and snare drum simultaneously as opposed to the more traditional way of playing drums which features crossed hands as the basic playing position.[1] Absolute beginners often choose this open-handed way of playing as their first and natural attempt to drumming.
A number of drummers experiment and are comfortable with open-handed drumming but do not always play in that configuration. Steve Smith and Deen Castronovo have used the open hand technique for the Journey song 'Don't Stop Believin'.
Many drummers that use this style position their 'ride' cymbal above their hi-hat for a quicker transition to both. Vintage amati tenor sax models.
Beginnings and development[edit]
Open handed playing was first conceived as idea with Jim Chapin's book Advanced Techniques for the Modern Drummer, and Gary Chester's book The New Breed which emphasize coordinated independence, leading with both hands and legs.
The first drummers who started open-handed playing are musicians like Billy Cobham, Lenny White, and Dennis Wilson, who started this way of playing in the 1960s and early 1970s either out of instinct (such as Wilson, who was naturally left-handed and therefore felt more comfortable leading with that hand), or out of experimentation, finding the advantage of not having to cross one's hands over in complex fills or playing the hi-hats in the traditional manner. Many proponents of the technique have also noted that the lack of a 'roof' of another arm crossing over allows for the full range of the snare playing arm's stroke to be available, meaning that loud rimshots are more easily played. Others have pointed out the added conservation of energy attained by not having to fully raise and cross one's lead hand when playing, for instance, between the hi-hats and ride in faster passages. As a result, many drummers in more extreme genres have adopted this technique. Another advantage is a player's access to the floor tom while playing the hi-hats, a feat infamously difficult to pull off in the traditional technique without access to an auxiliary floor tom.
In 2008 and 2011 Dom Famularo and Claus Hessler wrote Open Handed Playing vol.1 and 2, which are lessons focused entirely on open-handed playing.[2]
Open-handed drummers[edit]
First proponents[edit]
- Billy Cobham (Mahavishnu Orchestra, Miles Davis)
- Steve Upton (Wishbone Ash)
- Micky Dolenz (The Monkees)
- Lenny White (Return to Forever, Miles Davis)
- Dennis Wilson (The Beach Boys)
- Jürgen Rosenthal (Eloy)
- Art Tripp (The Mothers of Invention, Captain Beefheart & His Magic Band)
- Pierlugi Calderoni (Banco del Mutuo Soccorso)
Second era drummers[edit]
- Simon Phillips (Toto, The Who, Jeff Beck)
- Scott Travis (Judas Priest)
- Claus Hessler
- Rod Morgenstein (Dixie Dregs)
- Jimmy Marinos (The Romantics)
- Phil Gould (Level 42)
- Joe English (Wings)
- Rayford Griffin (Jean-Luc Ponty)
- Tom Hunting (Exodus)
- Geoff Kennelly (Damon, Farris Bros, INXS, The Image, The Driven)
Modern open handed drummers[edit]
- Sean Merrell (Ian Cooke (folk musician))
- Nate Kemner (The Nate Kemner Band)
- Neil Mavers (The La's)
- Aksel Holmgren (The Great Discord)
- Gorden Campbell
- Mike Mangini (Dream Theater)
- Will Carroll (Death Angel)
- King Coffey (Butthole Surfers)
- John Poe (Guadalcanal Diary)
- Fenriz (Darkthrone)
- Neil Sanderson (Three Days Grace)
- Carter Beauford (Dave Matthews Band)
- Michael 'Moose' Thomas (Bullet for My Valentine)
- Shawn Drover (Megadeth, Act of Defiance)
- Sammy Siegler (Youth of Today, CIV, Rival Schools, Judge, Side by Side, Head Automatica)
- Duncan Arsenault (The Curtain Society, The Curtis Mayflower)
- Mike Bordin (Faith No More, Ozzy Osbourne)
- Todd Friend (H2O)
- Josh Eppard (Coheed and Cambria)
- Ginger Fish (Marilyn Manson)
- John Kiffmeyer (formerly of Green Day and Isocracy)
- Christopher Guanlao (Silversun Pickups)
- Zac Mayfield (Oh, Sleeper)
- John Zox (ZOX)
- Scott Mercado (Candlebox) (Brandi Carlile)
- Will Kennedy (Yellowjackets)
- Jason Finn (The Presidents of the USA)
- Ilan Rubin (Nine Inch Nails, Angels & Airwaves, The New Regime, Lostprophets, Paramore)
- Daniel Platzman (Imagine Dragons)
- Dave Dippenaar (Dark Matter, FearFall, Grindlock, PSordid)
- Mark Heron (Oceansize)
- Matt Schulz (Holy Fuck)
- Danny Carey (Tool)
- Matt Cameron (Soundgarden, Pearl Jam)
- Curtis Hall (Grand Archives)
- Travis Orbin
- Ray Luzier (Korn)
- Eli Wallace (Million Hits)
- Blake Anderson (Vektor)
- Neil Mason (The Cadillac Three)
- Sam Bassal (Ocean Grove)
- Alex Rüdinger (The Faceless, Ordinance, Conquering Dystopia)
- Rennert Uri (Häxxan, Balagan, Sick Horse, Yay Nay, Indridi)
- Ryan Shutler (Lazarus A.D.)
- Ryan Strathie (Hungry Kids of Hungary)
- Robert 'Sput' Searight (Snarky Puppy)
- Jamal Thomas (Maceo Parker) [3]
- Chris Wee (And So I Watch You from Afar)
- Sal Abruscato (Type O Negative, Life of Agony, A Pale Horse Named Death)
- Simon Allen (The New Mastersounds)
- Paul Mazurkiewicz (Cannibal Corpse)
- Paul Deakin (The Mavericks)
- Randy Greer Sea of Sorrow formerly Joss and Barking Spiders)
- Tim Solyan (Victims Family)
- Blake Morey (Verb The Noun)
- Hozoji Margullis (Helms Alee)
- Ben Minal (Dorje (band), Toska) [4]
- Louis Cole (Knower) [5]
References[edit]
- ^https://web.archive.org/web/20130409235249/http://www.mattsdrumlessons.com.au/open-handed
- ^Dom Famularo Books on Open handed playing
- ^https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABLwmYI09Lw
- ^https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKuYwz1WjNU
- ^https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnEmD17kYsE
External links[edit]
Retrieved from 'https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Open-handed_drumming&oldid=902915460'
Posted by4 years ago
Archived
Hi Drummit ! I'm going to move my Sabian AAX Stage hi-hat 14' as x-hat on right side of my kit. So I need new pair of hat, to mostly play loud stuff, oriented to rock grooves. I already have all cymbals AAX and hi-hat besides AAX (or Sabian at least doesn't interest me). I need musical hi-hat to play mostly closed and halt-opened ( AAX Stage hi-hat sounds very nice semi-open/open but like shit when trying to 'groove' imho), has to be selective but without any metallic sounds. Basically groovie hi-hat for rock/metal music application.
I have selected:
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- Sabian AAX X-Plosion 14'
- Sabian AAX X-Celerator 14'
- Sabian AAX Fusion 13'
What can you tell me about differences between those hats ? Is somebody using any of them ? Other recommendations appreciated.
6 comments
![Difference Difference](/uploads/1/2/3/9/123954941/759229343.png)
Difference Between Closed And Open Hi Hat Images
I have been listening allot to house (old school) mixes, and try to make a beat like that in LMMS, but seem to fail again and again.
I wonder if my problem comes from not knowing the name of drums very well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mH8-x5U7XsA&t=1910s
2min 50
43min. a classic
The trouble I have is the shh shh ssh sound.
Are that high hats or not ? Nothing in lmms seems to sound like this ?
I expect I am looking at the wrong spot though, or totally misinterpret what I hear?
The kick is easy its 4 to the floor. Then I hear a clap but its probably layered ?
I hear this type of beat allot in house mixes. I even wonder is some part is programmed into the mixer not coming from the records ? .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rUy2VdzQAA
12 nin 30
19m 20
They are not entirely the same. but the seems to share an off beat sound.
And a clap.
What is that off beat sound ? something in reverse ?
One track from the mix.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XMsYQuY8rI
This is driving me nuts.
I wonder if my problem comes from not knowing the name of drums very well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mH8-x5U7XsA&t=1910s
2min 50
43min. a classic
The trouble I have is the shh shh ssh sound.
Are that high hats or not ? Nothing in lmms seems to sound like this ?
I expect I am looking at the wrong spot though, or totally misinterpret what I hear?
The kick is easy its 4 to the floor. Then I hear a clap but its probably layered ?
I hear this type of beat allot in house mixes. I even wonder is some part is programmed into the mixer not coming from the records ? .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rUy2VdzQAA
12 nin 30
19m 20
They are not entirely the same. but the seems to share an off beat sound.
And a clap.
What is that off beat sound ? something in reverse ?
One track from the mix.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XMsYQuY8rI
This is driving me nuts.